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1. confluence
   Administrator

   We have many geographically dispersed members, we have this forum, and I found this handy PBEM FAQ:

   http://www.rpglibrary.org/articles/faqs/pbem.php

   How about it? We could have two or three DMs, so that the game doesn't hinge on one person being available to read tons of stuff and post frequently. There could be many players. The plots would have to be relatively short and simple, since they will be drawn out by the delays between posting, but we could have many things happening simultaneously (like in a LARP). It would probably be best to have a very light system, approaching the simplicity of LARP mechanics.

   * Would you be interested in DMing?
   * Would you be interested in playing?
   * If you're interested, what kind of setting would you prefer? Give three suggestions in decreasing order of preference.

   EDIT:

   My vague ideas about timing and other mechanics:

   * Maximum of one "meaningful" post a day. By "meaningful" I mean a player's statement of intent (I attack the orc, trying to disarm him with my sword) which requires a meaningful GM response.

   * This does not apply to witty in-character banter between players who happen to be online at the same time.

   * It also doesn't apply to asking the GM simple questions, asking for clarification, etc., as long as they're minor issues. They'd probably go in a different place, anyway.

   * Until the DM replies, you can edit your Meaningful post if you've changed your mind about how you want to do something (perhaps as a result of witty banter).

   * All posts are readable by everyone, so it's up to posting and reading players to separate player and character knowledge in their posts and in their heads. If something really needs to be secret, maybe we could allow emailing the DMs -- but only one secret action would be allowed per day (in addition to your public action).

   * Participation on weekends should not be complusory, so maybe Friday + weekend should be treated as one day.

   * You should check back and respond to the DM at least once a day. If you're involved in a scene with lots of people, and you go AWOL, the DM can decide your character's action for the day based on what you were doing before.

   Posted 16 years ago #

2. Xenaroth
   Member

   I'd love to play but i'm not sure how long i'll keep sustained activity

   Posted 16 years ago #

3. Xenaroth
   Member

   What kind of setting are you thinking of using?

   Posted 16 years ago #

4. confluence
   Administrator

   I haven't decided on the setting -- that's why I'm asking for people's preferences. There are many settings I like and would be willing to run.

   Posted 16 years ago #

5. Astral_Daemon
   Member

   I'm interested in playing.

   My 3 preferred settings would be:
   - any world of darkness game (new or old setting)
   - a pulp setting
   - something tolkien-esque.

   Posted 16 years ago #

6. Xenaroth
   Member

   If I could choose a setting I'd go with a setting that has
   - Varied races
   - Magic to be common and low key

   So tolkien-esque would suit me wonderfully

   Posted 16 years ago #

7. confluence
   Administrator

   Vague, rambly thoughts about mechanics and etiquette:

   * In a real-time roleplaying game, when a situation arises which affects more than one person, players can consult with each other and with the DM to reach consensus on what happens. In this turn-based game format, doing that would take forever. Most turn-based RPGs I've come across allow players to make certain assumptions without consulting anyone; what they can and can't do is governed by game-specific etiquette.

   (While the concept of making decisions about anything other than your own character's actions is somewhat alien to people who have only played gamist and simulationist RPGs, it seems to be a commonplace technique in narrativist systems. If you're interested in gaming theory, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNS_Theory and The Forge: http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/)

   * I'm loath to start off with a rigid set of rules, because this is the first turn-based RPG I've ever been involved in and I don't know what will work well yet. I do have some ideas:

   * If you describe yourself doing something that other characters are likely to object to, other players should have the opportunity to react.

   * We can use a very simple system (The Window?) to determine what different characters are good or bad at. Then we'd have an objective mechanic for players to use to resolve inter-player conflict without involving a DM. (We wouldn't see each other rolling dice, but hopefully we can trust each other. If we really wanted, we could probably create a dice-rolling bot which publishes its results).

   * You can assume certain obvious things about your environment, and the behaviour of minor NPCs. (For example, you can assume that you can walk into the inn, sit down, call for food and drink and have some brought to you.) If you want to make things more interesting, you can voluntarily make skill checks (or random rolls) to see how well you succeed at things, and how NPCs react to you. (Does the innkeeper like you, or think you're a good-for-nothing bandit? Is the food good, or terrible?) If there is something special about an environment which will make things easier or more difficult for you there, the DM should include it in the description, and you should incorporate it into your posts (if a town is unfriendly towards dwarves, and you are a dwarf, people in the inn are likely to treat you with rudeness).

   * Players can attempt to have things happen which other players disagree with; this should be treated in a similar way to in-character inter-player conflict. However, while in-character conflict can be resolved by a comparison of in-character skills, we'll need an out-of-character resolution mechanic of some kind for out-of-character influence on the story. A comparison of dice rolls may be enough.

   * Players can potentially create entire subplots with minor NPCs which don't involve DMs at all.

   * Suggestion: whenever someone describes an in-character action or out-of-character story decision that they think other characters are likely to dispute, they could pre-emptively include a relevant skill roll / story roll in brackets, to save time.

   This is getting really long and rambly; I'll wait to see if anyone else actually wants to play. ;)

   Posted 16 years ago #

8. Xenaroth
   Member

   Quoting confluence "* Players can potentially create entire subplots with minor NPCs which don't involve DMs at all."

   - ideally this is what we would want as it flows best

   i am unfamilier with the Window and would prefer a WoD/DnD based rules system - I think the WoD rules system works very well for form based RPing

   BtW: is it at all possible to get an e-mail everytime this forum thread is updated - kinda like a feed or something?

   Posted 16 years ago #

9. confluence
   Administrator

   System:

   Whoa. I think D20 / WoD would be way too rules-heavy (especially D20). I'm not envisaging huge character sheets with millions of stats and complex powers.

   The Window is dead simple. You have some stats. You pick some skills (we can have an approved list). Each stat and each skill you have written down gets a rank from Terrible to Super-Human (except you wouldn't be allowed to take Super-Human, unless it was a superhero game, or something). Each rank corresponds to a die (from d30 for Terrible to d4 for Awesomely Good (the rank descriptions are up to you)). To make a check, you roll the appropriate die. Low is good. Unless the DM gives you a bonus or penalty, 6 or less is a success. You can also have contested rolls between two characters.

   That's about it; the actual stats, skills, etc. are customisable.

   http://www.mimgames.com/window/

   Updates:

   Do you have an RSS feed reader? If so, there's an RSS feed link at the bottom of the page. If not, you can try out out email notification plugin -- mark this topic as a favourite, then go to your profile and turn notifications on. (If your posts start going yellow and invisible to anyone except you, it means we haven't fixed a certain annoying bug; let me know by emailing me: adrianna dot pinska at the well-known webmail service run by google. ;))

   Posted 16 years ago #

10. OOPMan
    Moderator

    Er, yeah, no rules heavy systems please. I would be very keen to try something like this out, but not if we're using some heavy-weight D20 or White Wolf system. No GURPS either please.

    I would happily play in something with the Window, based on your blurb. It sounds simple and customisable and I haven't tried it yet :-)

    As for settings, something recent past, modern or Sci-Fi would be my preference. Also, something that would not result in the kinds of stupidly long action resolutions required by games featuring complex spells and crazy superheroes.

    Posted 16 years ago #

11. confluence
    Administrator

    A more detailed suggested rule about NPCs:

    * Players can control some minor NPCs, but these NPCs are everyone's and no-ones. They don't belong to specific players -- anyone can control them. Players can control minor NPCs as long as they remain stock characters, who exist mostly to perform a professional service or provide local colour. They can like or dislike certain PCs (within boundaries which are acceptable to the players involved), but if they ever become seriously antagonistic to or allied with specific PCs, they should be taken over by a DM. Basically, players should not abuse NPC-manipulation to give themselves adoring minions or sic mercenaries on other characters -- but if you can agree amongst yourselves that Jane the bar wench thinks Bob is cute and thinks Dave is a boorish lout, that's cool.

    OOPMan: I've been using the Window for my L5R campaign; it seems to be working pretty well. The setting might up being fantasy, since that's the only overlap so far -- but if it does, I'll stay away from complicated magic.

    ETA: Correction: sci-fi is another potential overlap, since it can mean varied races. And I loves me some sci-fi! :D

    Also: setting up the specifics of the world setting and paradigm can be a shared effort. We could use the Universalis system for it (I believe the idea has been floated before). If we wanted to be completely narrativist, we could use Universalis for the whole game and be totally DM-less* -- but that would be far from a traditional approach, and it might be too whacked out. We could use it for some things that can't be resolved by in-character tests of skill, like agreeing on what NPCs are doing.

    * That's something I wouldn't mind trying out as a separate project.

    Review: http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9425.phtml

    Their homepage seems to be dead, but you can find it in the Wayback Machine. I know d@vid's got the rules; I think he has an actual printed rulebook.

    Once we have a setting, we can put it on the wiki (along with our characters, NPCs, stats, etc.).

    Posted 16 years ago #

12. Arad
    Member

    *Arad waves her hand around enthusiastically* Ooooh, yes please.

    You have no idea how roleplaying starved I am. My imagination needs a kick, plus I miss peeple.

    Rules heavy systems for combat irritate me and I agree with confluence that a LARP system will probably work best. I often find that if the character sheets are too limited it leads to a lot of interpretation/confusion between DM and player and results in rather a simple character. Although many great feats have been accomplished with a list of numbers pencilled onto a page and a great imagination and story.

    My setting preferences are: fantasy (any kind really) and modern day with supernatural twist. But anything has potential for fun.

    Note: I may not be able to get online everyday (bloody dial-up), but would love to play !!!!

    Posted 16 years ago #

13. dystopia
    code monkey

    i would be interested in joining this venture. i am fairly easy when it comes to the setting, but i think i might lean slightly more towards sci-fi than fantasy. it has been too long since i have done anything that is vaguely sci-fi oriented

    the window system seems to be treating us remarkably well, so i would be keen to use it. however, a dice less system would possibly work better for this sort of play. i am not sure though, so let's stick with Window

    Posted 16 years ago #

14. Yancke
    Member

    Maybe have a look at the Winter court thing Alderac entertainment had a while ago. that seemed quite cool.
    I think it will get very tedious if we have to do 1 action a day.
    Day 1 - you attack the orc
    Day 2 - ye ill attack it again.
    Day 3 - again.
    day 4 - yay i killed an orc.
    day 5 - bandgaged my wounds.

    Meh. Not cool. D@vid and Tim's down time thing in Flower war was cool. Narrative appraoch sounds cool. But looks like you folks are well on youre way.

    Posted 16 years ago #

15. Yancke
    Member

    In no real order things i think could ROCK:

    1 - post apocolyptic. ALA "Gunslinger", or "Jon Shannow" novels. Western flavour mebbe.

    2 - A setting like George R.R martin's "A game of thrones" I have the deluxe edition
    "my precious" rpg. Low Magic fantasy, very high rate of character death, Very
    courtly and political. People can play the various noble houses and try to off
    each other. Even if we dont play it Go read the novels they really are cool.

    3 - A nice solid Sci - Fi setting could be cool Space opera? or Hard SCI FI?
    In a dune styled universe?

    4 - A UA flavoured game could be cool, modern urban sprawl with a supernatural twist.
    Underworld, Politics, and the mass media could feature heavily. Duke it out to
    become the Gods of the modern age.

    5 - An L5r game at court could be very interesting,hmmm and deadly.
    You pilled your tea, and have insulted my honour now you must commit
    se...se...sep...Gah ..Poisonnnnnnn *dies*. Duels to the death, Military campaigns
    between the clans. A place for everybody!

    We could even Have them all rolled into one! Set after an apocolapse where the world is ruled by a new feudal japan/asia! With Mystic Robot Ninja that come in the Niiiiiight!

    Posted 16 years ago #

16. confluence
    Administrator

    Re: combat

    This is why I don't see using anything rules-heavy as viable. Twenty exchanges of "I hit the orc; I do 8 points of damage" / "It's still alive; it hits you for 4 points of damage" would suck. What I have in mind for combat resolution is more like "I attack the orc; I'll try to disarm him, but if I can't I'll just attack all-out. Here's my combat roll." / "OK, you don't manage to disarm him, but you are able to stab him in the kidneys. He dies. He scores a shallow cut across your right forearm; it stings." The finnicky details of the combat shouldn't be hacked out with individual die rolls; you wouldn't do that in a LARP, and here it would also be silly and unmanageable.

    Re: setting

    I veto westerns, 'cause I don't like them. I also veto L5R, because while I love it dearly, I'm already running one game and playing in another one, and I want to do something different.

    I'm iffy about using any setting which requires foreknowledge of a large amount of background information. I think it would be best to use either generic tolkienesque fantasy or homebrewed space opera, and decide on the details together.

    (Playing in a rich, complicated existing setting is cool, if it's one everyone is familiar with. Otherwise it sucks a bit for the people who aren't.)

    Regardless of what we play, I also recommend A Song of Ice And Fire. ;)

    Posted 16 years ago #

17. Yancke
    Member

    I wasnt saying play those specofic worlds foolish woman. Rather inspired by....

    "What I have in mind for combat resolution is more like "I attack the orc; I'll try to disarm him, but if I can't I'll just attack all-out. Here's my combat roll." / "OK, you don't manage to disarm him, but you are able to stab him in the kidneys. He dies. He scores a shallow cut across your right forearm; it stings." The finnicky details of the combat shouldn't be hacked out with individual die rolls; you wouldn't do that in a LARP, and here it would also be silly and unmanageable."

    Ye im not sure i like the idea of one on one combat situations like that. Unless it is between two players. I like the Declaring what your character works towards in a general sense, per "time unit" be that a game day, week or month.

    For example: Lets say i play a galactic Pirate whose nemisis is a planetary governor.
    My action this "month" is spent on harrasing the imperial trade lines so
    that word of his situation caonnot get out. With my fleet attacking in
    possibly my next action.
    In turn the imperial governor has noticed the attacks and has sent armed
    mercenaries to defend the messengers.

    A dm could work out the ods (in this case 50/50 - One action spent vs one action spent)
    to see what happens. Or whatever.

    Each player has resources that he can spend on anything he can justify. Gaining, losing some in the process.
    Anyway. My couple a cents worth.

    Posted 16 years ago #

18. plosiguant
    Member

    Well, I would also be interested in, since I normally dislike fantasy, I am throwing my vote in for sci fi or modern supernatural... Pulp sounds interesting as well, but nobody else seems to like it.

    Posted 16 years ago #

19. Xenaroth
    Member

    Can we set a target date of when we will start or at least a target number of players before we start. I'd just like a reference frame to see how far we have till we begin. Because currently I'm kinda frothing - wait thats a bit rabid - oozing with ideas of who or what I'd like to play.

    Also can you please post a rough skill level guide to see what level of characters we will be playing.

    Posted 16 years ago #

20. confluence
    Administrator

    OK. I am currently leaning towards a space opera setting (mainly because I want to run something completely unlike my other current games, and because space opera is one of the settings I like the most). We can start with the players we have now. If everyone agrees, we can start working on setting details next week.

    Details I have in mind:
    * several thousand years in the future
    * there's a small number of interesting alien races
    * possibly there's an FTL drive, but FTL is expensive and non-trivial. Systems are densely colonised, some by multiple alien races according to complex treaties.
    * Humans have lost the trail back to Old Earth; the human "homeworld" is an old, established colony (this means we can have vague cultural influences without having to plot out the details of world politics way into the future). There may have been a dark age in which a lot of information was lost.

    The campaign concept I have is for the players to be the crew of some kind of small, privately owned and possibly slightly criminal trading vessel, in established space opera tradition. This would mean relatively few restrictions on character concepts (a rag-tag group of misfits, etc.), and potentially allow players to be more or less involved at different times (they could stay on board the ship during certain adventures). The ship would probably be too small to have an FTL drive, and we could spend the entire campaign in one system (one with multiple alien races, of course). There's likely to be a war on somewhere in the system (or more than one).

    Questions to all people who have expressed interest:

    1. Are you interested in playing in a space opera setting, or do you really hate space opera? (I promise minimal silly science and maximum logic and realism, as far as space opera goes. And no time travel, ever ever.)
    2. Do you definitely want to play?
    3. What is the highest posting frequency you think you can realistically commit to? Is once a day (excluding weekends) ridiculous, or do you think you can do that? If you can't post as frequently as other people, we can still work you in with the right character concept, but I think it would help to know at the start.
    4. Would you be able to attend a setting discussion on IRC? If so, on what days at what times?
    5. Do you have any other comments?

    Posted 16 years ago #

21. Astral_Daemon
    Member

    1. Space opera sounds like fun to me. I'm totally fine with that.

    2. Yes, I'll definitely be able to play as long as we don't turn it into a real time 200 posts a day thing.

    3. 5 is around the highest I can hope for. Once or twice a day sounds best to me, but I can probably go higher without too much of an issue. I think treating Friday, Saturday, Sunday as one day would be best, at least to begin with.

    4. To be totally honest, I barely know IRC. I can learn though. I could probably attend ~2 sessions a week. Weekday evenings that aren't Wednesday work best for me timewise. The other issue is that I'm on campus and I believe that IRC is blocked on UCT internet. I can look into ways around that though... I believe they exist.

    5. So what's the consensus on system?

    Posted 16 years ago #

22. confluence
    Administrator

    Regarding IRC: I'm not intending to have regular IRC sessions, but I would like to have a planning session, in which everyone can contribute setting ideas, and vaguely confer on character creation (so we don't end up with five pilots).

    System: unless I hear a compelling counter-argument, I'm going with the Window, 'cause it's simple.

    Posted 16 years ago #

23. plosiguant
    Member

    The Window sounds good, although I would have to read through it again (I assume it has changed since I last read it (about 1999 or so).

    Space Opera is also good, although I presonally like silly science... Rather than having FTL drives, why not use wormholes? (Just a suggestion)

    Can do about once a day, also happy with an IRC session, although it would have to be inthe evening.

    I also suggest having an OOC and an IC thread for the game.

    Posted 16 years ago #

24. akika
    Member

    I think I'd like to play. Although, I think I need to find myself a new dm... I've only ever played campaigns run by confluence! I like the window as a system and I could do space opera, though unlike plosiguant, I can't stand silly science.

    I could manage at least once a day, possibly two or three times a day. I would not be able to post on weekends, so would need to consider friday, saturday and sunday as one day. There would be occasional days I would not be able to post and if I go excavating, then longer periods. That's unlikely though.

    The IRC session would be difficult. I would only be able to do it during the day and, like Astral_Daemon, I have the problem of it being blocked at UCT.

    Posted 16 years ago #

25. confluence
    Administrator

    OK, getting everyone on IRC at the same time may be too tricky.

    I am going to make a new forum for the game. In it, I will start a setting thread. If you have a cool idea for the setting, or some kind of request (some ideas for an alien race, a vague *kind* of alien race you think should exist, a kind of technology, a kind of planetary government, a kind of social structure, etc.), post it in the thread. I can't guarantee that I'll incorporate everything (some things might just not fit), but I'll see what I can do.

    Avoid anything too magical. E.g.: some telepathy may be OK, but I'd prefer it to occur via specialised organs / implants than through actual magical manipulation of people's minds.

    Tonight (hopefully) I'll start putting up my setting ideas / skeletons on the wiki.

    Posted 16 years ago #

26. Xenaroth
    Member

    1. Are you interested in playing in a space opera setting, or do you really hate space opera? (I promise minimal silly science and maximum logic and realism, as far as space opera goes. And no time travel, ever ever.)
    I've never played a Space Opera and I'm not against try new stuff.
    Silly science - not against but i don't people digging up (astro)physics rules and stuff and trying to rule lawyer that way - I study Astrophysics and i don;t feel like having to deal with it in a game. . . but i don't mind giving my view on how things happen in astros i'm just more against "rule lawyering"

    2. Do you definitely want to play?
    Yes
    3. What is the highest posting frequency you think you can realistically commit to? Is once a day (excluding weekends) ridiculous, or do you think you can do that? If you can't post as frequently as other people, we can still work you in with the right character concept, but I think it would help to know at the start.
    Posting frequency - once/twice a day

    4. Would you be able to attend a setting discussion on IRC? If so, on what days at what times?
    Not really - I'm really busy and exams are coming up in a week or so time

    5. Do you have any other comments?
    Not atm

    Posted 16 years ago #

27. OOPMan
    Moderator

    1: Space Opera is okay, as long as it's not to fluffy. I prefer Hard SF, but what the hell.

    2: Yes

    3: Once per day is fine for me. I have work to do, and all.

    4: Unlikely, unless the IRC server has a CGI chat app

    5: Not yet.

    Posted 16 years ago #

28. Arad
    Member

    1. Space Opera sounds like fun (I have cunning plans afoot).
    2. Yes !!! *repeats silly dance of attention seeking*
    3. I rely on silly dial-up for my internet connection. I should be able to do most weekdays (forewarned is foreplanned...) and once per day is most realistic for yours truly.
    4. No can manage IRC - sorry.
    5. Comment - what is the Windows of which you speak ? I guess I'm already starting with homework.

    Posted 16 years ago #

29. Xenaroth
    Member

    Arad

    You can find basically teh rules for teh Window at
    http://www.mimgames.com/window/

    Posted 16 years ago #

30. Arad
    Member

    Since I have been out of the loop - once the game gets going it would be cool to get an idea of who is who - past nicks.

    Thanks Xenaroth. It looks awesome from the brief glance at the site.

    Let the reading begin....

    Posted 16 years ago #

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